Should using ATI cards be cheating?

[Shurijo]

I heard rumours about people with ATI cards not having to deal with Fog, but I thought it wasn't true. Until I seen screenshots, now I understand how some snipers can shoot from the def car and hit people prone under the assualt tower. I can't see that far from the same position (I saw his position on def, then tried it myself and I can barely see the assualt front car.


Without fog:
http://home.nc.rr.com/gidgiddoni/2.jpg

With fog:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/anotherdeadhooker/more/foggy.jpg

I feel kinda depressed and dissapointed now, because I know that some people have a greater sniping advantage that I will never have (since I own a GeoForce ti4600). :( I think that this isn't a big deal on CQC maps (like weapons cache), but all of our sniper maps deal with fog so I think this is a bigger problem for people that like to play on the -=DoW=- servers.

Can anyone with an ATI car verfify this stuff?

take care,
Shur

[/img]

[-(Oc)-Mavric]

I dont have one but I know it is true. There is still a limit on how far they can see though, it just cuts off all at once.

[Mschadt]

Thats what it looked like to me before I upgraded to a 9700pro. Think my old card was 32mb DDR ATI All-In-Wonder

[IsZi]

Well, if you guys wanna discriminate cheaters simply by their hardware choices (I built my system, which still maintains its original hardware configuration, a good year or two before AA even came out, let alone did I have the choice of whether or not to "take advantage" of a graphics engine glitch.) then I think I might need to start looking for another group to play with, or another game to play in, until the AA dudes figure out how to fix this fog issue.

However, at the same time, I think you have not quite had or taken the opportunity to have the full experience of playing without fog. It's really not all that great, and you don't have quite as much of an advantage as the screenshots might make you think you do. Sure you can see stuff that's in the environment a lot farther away, but seeing the actual opponent doesn't occur until you get a little bit closer. I might be creeping up the middle, and all of a sudden out from the grey pops the car from the other side, but I still have to move a few more feet before I can spot the OPFOR that's sitting right next to it at the same distance. Yes, they might be a bit more visible with the flat grey behind them, but at the same time they can also see me at the same range. So it's kinda halfway fair.

And besides, the game really looks crappy without the fog. Especially on the Bridge map. Of course, by the screenshot I'm seeing "with fog", the Bridge map looks kinda crappy anyway, with the fog being dense as it is, but that's just a part of that map. With an ATI card, you see that same flat grey on EVERY horizon in EVERY direction, in EVERY map! And you don't see any sky, either! It's just a crappy-ass grey background that occasionally changes to show slight diferences in the map's ultimate outside border. (Notice how the grey is darker in some regions on the "Without fog" screenshot.) I'd really love to play with the fog myself. It would make the game look a hell of a lot better.

Again, however, if you guys are gonna discriminate by a user's hardware choice (which I will admit there are probably some out there who have gone and gotten an older ATI card specifically to exploit this bug), then I'm gonna find somewhere else to play.

Fortunately, however, I believe that the majority of you out here are a bit more understanding in considering those who may have a playing advantage, but at the cost of an extremely less pleasurable playing experience.

Isn't there a thread out on the AA forums like this somewhere, dealing with people who play with higher Brightness or Gamma settings? I know it's not the best analogy, since those players DO have a choice (for the most part) and CAN change it easily, but I think you get the point.

There's my two dollars.

P.S.: Unless I'm mistaken, whoever's playing in that screenshot with the fog is about to get their ass nailed from the left window they're looking at.

[deaths workers]

yes i have seen this no fog i am runing a geo force 2 so i cant say much but those who have a difrent card cant be blamd if u wana see what its like tun on aa and hit tab type start bridge and then once your in type plaer lock 0 and type in show fog once your in this well show u how it is like ok

[deaths workers]

player lock*

[IsZi]

Actually, no. Show fog is fog removal to the extreme. Nothing like the effect that you get with an ATI card. With the ATI card, the only difference is that the visibility loss isn't gradual. You can see perfectly, up to the point of zero visibility, then it just cuts off. Normally, you see a gradual increase in the density of the fog, until the point of zero visibility, where you can't see anything.

SHOW FOG on the other hand, completely removes all fog, which allows you to see completely from one end of the map to the other, uninhibited, provided that there are no physical barriers between you and the end of the map.

The only thing that SHOW FOG could really demonstrate to you is the "grey wall" effect that ATI users experience. In Bridge, hit SHOW FOG, and look upwards. That will show you what we see at the zero visibility point. Everything before that is perfectly clear, as long as the game renders it.

[-(Oc)-Mavric]

He is correct. Show fog is much diffrent from What they see with ATI cards... They do know about it and they are trying to fix it but it has something to do with the way fog is rendered. New ATI cards dont have this problem...

[deaths workers]

ok

[Mschadt]

This what it looks like with NO fog:

http://129.7.144.249:83/images/-=DoW=-pics/shot00021.bmp

There is a big difference and there is not really an advantage to having the ATI as coby said it appears as if you can see farther but you can't always see the characters as far back as you see the landscape.

[IsZi]

Exactly, and that in itself can actually pose a disadvantage. If you're not constantly aware of that issue, you may rush into a situastion where there's a bunch of OPFOR waiting for you, when you thought all was clear because you could see all the landscape up there.

[Superior]

DoW lonely just kicked me of the bridge because he said he say me shooting thru smoke yesterday. First off I didn't play against him yesterday so he is wrong there. Second If I was shooting thru smoke then that does not mean I was cheating. Defence always shoots at us thru the smoke why can't we shoot back. -(Oc)-Superior

[Acedeal]

DoW lonely just kicked me of the bridge because he said he say me shooting thru smoke yesterday. First off I didn't play against him yesterday so he is wrong there. Second If I was shooting thru smoke then that does not mean I was cheating. Defence always shoots at us thru the smoke why can't we shoot back. -(Oc)-Superior

Did he just kick you are ban you, big difference there.

This is not the place to discuss being banned, if you got banned, then go to

http://www.dow-sniper.net.contact.htm send me a note, and I'll check into it. OR post the admin that banned you a PM.

Thanks

[~LoneStarSniper~]

I think that it should be counted as cheating... because in real life, you cant just put a chip in your head and not see fog...

[IsZi]

I think this topic went dead a long time ago. And, if it is counted cheating, then that would ban approximately 1/3 to 1/2 of the players out there from our servers, for somthing that we can't even determine for a fact that they are doing!

[Shurijo]

I just hope that they fix this *bug* in the next release. You can't tell until you are staring at fog and see the bullet come right through your scope and hit you in the head... I hate it when that happens and it is pretty easy to tell when you are playing with someone like that. They basically get all or most of the kills and nobody ever sees them. :(

[IsZi]

For me, it's easy to tell, because I find myself dead the second I see them. But, then again, they could just be watching the fog REALLY REALLY closely, or maybe they've just tweaked their monitor or video settings so that they can see better, or (I believe AceDeal posted a way to do this awhile back.) they could have just turned fog off on their cards.

You see, there's a number of ways that a "normal" player can be mistaken for an ATI Card User, so there's really no point in outlawing it, especially when you (again) consider the number of people who use ATI Cards, simply because they've become one of the Industry Standards, such as 3Dfx was before they got bought by NVidia.

And yes, I do hope they fix this bug in the next release. The game does look pretty crappy without the fog, regardless of what advantage it may provide.

[IsZi]

Oh, and Shurijo...


They basically get all or most of the kills and nobody ever sees them.


We don't call those people "cheaters", we call them "Good Snipers".

[Shurijo]

Oh, and Shurijo...

We don't call those people "cheaters", we call them "Good Snipers".

Master Kenobi,

I agree that they are good snipers, but the best snipers are playing against equals and not against handicapped (disadvantaged) players. Or (restated) the best snipers don't need to exploit bugs in the game to get an advantage.

-Shur

[IsZi]

Like I said in a previous post:

If this is decided to be a rule (Which it most likely will not.) then I'm bustin' outta here.

'Cuz I built my system long before I even imagined such a game as this would be released by the worlds greatest military force, let alone that this game would have a bug in it that specifically applies to the card I was about to purchase for my new system, and even when I had to do an emergency replacement of the card that I had originally put into this system, the ATI card was the cheapest card, immedately available, that still met up to the old card's specs, and I wasn't in much of a position to mess with prices.

So, for many, myself included, we're not EXPLOITING a Bug, the Bug is FORCING ITSELF UPON US! So, if you wanna bitch about it, go to the DEVS and bitch about it. But as long as it's still here, there's nothing that we, as players, or Admins, or even Server Owners, can do about it without DISCRIMINATING against a LARGE MAJORITY of INNOCENT USERS!

AND FOR GOD'S SAKE, WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE LOCK THIS TOPIC?!?!

[Acedeal]

-----------------LOCKED --------------------------