Map Boundies

[-=DoW=- Old School]

I don't know who did the map boundries flash or whatever it is but a HUGE thanks on a job well done.

[TR-JustinMc06-]

Btw, when will you guys have some rules for radio tower? right now im just doing A and D can go everywere except tunnels and of chorse snipers only.

[IsZi]

I believe Dsotm did the flash maps. Great job, isn't it? Radio Tower? Heck, I think most of us are still learning our way around the place a bit. At least I am. Tunnels of course will be off limits. In fact, most indoor areas will probably be limited to Defense only or something like that, to avoid CQC. Then we'll just have to make something up that will keep D near the windows whenever they're indoors, so we don't have any problems with people hiding from the OPFOR.

Yup dsotm did the flash bounderis i think they are very helpful ;) hmm i think def should stay in their landing place and ass objective is to get there and kill them i mean the bounderis will be the hill you can get on hill but can't go down

[ByteMe97]

This is still in the works but this post covers some prospective guidelines...

http://www.dow-sniper.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7052&highlight=#7052

Hmm it probably in -=DoW=- Only section because i can't get there

[ByteMe97]

i think u r correct

i will copy and paste it then

http://129.7.144.249:83/Pics/Radio%20Tower%20Rules%20Prospectus.jpg

to clarify a little...

red is def limitations

assault is welcome to come to red but will not be welcomed by def

note that def can still flank the peak from the east (bottom right corner area)

let us know what you think...

Def is allowed to ass LZ ? ! i think thats a terrible mistake what map we play that def is allowed to go to ass spawn point as far as i know none.

P.S.

I think i got it a little wrong maybe the red is where def can go if so so thats ok ;)

[ByteMe97]

bad-dog :stick: bad-dog :stick:

[TR-JustinMc06-]

D can't go onto CP? (central peak) that is my favorite sniping spot :)

bad-dog :stick: bad-dog :stick:


that means i was mistaken ?

[Plaminek]

I have played Radio Tower a lot in the last couple of days on official servers and this is my opinion:

- DEF is ALWAYS first on the north slope of NW valley (near C) and if they are at least 2 of them there (1 of them is sniper), assault cannot nearly go to the first hill from the N valley - who goes there is dead in couple of seconds

- DEF is ALWAYS first in the ruins and with the cover from south peak they deliver many kills to assault

- only 1 DEF (but he must be good :wink: ) is needed to cover E valley from approaching assault from LZ2 location

- this map has HUGE line of sight and snipering is long range shooting, so why let def so deep into assault initiation area?

- if the boundaries remain as in posted picture there will be A LOT of CQC in sniper games i think

So my comments and suggestions are:
1/ Def should be able to access all tunnel exits (for coming out), but this should be the boundary (2 vertexes on the map)
2/ Destroyed car near C should be a boundary (1 vertex on the map)
3/ South def peak should be a boundary - no access to ruins for Def (1 vertex on the map)
4/ there is small peak just W or SW from CP where is my mark - this should be the last spot where Def can go - maybe even here not (1 vertex on the map)
5/ Def shouldn't be allowed INSIDE WALLS (Radio Tower, ruins near RT and Observation Point). Def MUST have above them "open air" - possible areas are behind walls and on the roofs. To access any roof are Def must use ladders on the outside walls, not going inside by stairs.

I was not playing with the map pic too much but maybe it looks like it nearly straight line accross the map if u connect all vertexes - thanks for the map dsotm or ByteMe or any1 :)

Can some1 from DoW try it on the map pic and show to all how it looks like?
Thanks

[ByteMe97]

Plaminek,

I think we are close on this one.

I have the car(well a little beyond but that's just my sloppy outline) but i felt the East Ruin area should be in since it will kinda urge assault to use caution. If you dan't want a CQB head west or up CP.

I basically limeted DEF forward movement to low land only except the East.

I will work with what I am reading as your vertex line and try to get another map up here with that and some other changes that have been suggested soon.

Bottom line we need to stop the first come first serve play happening on 2 right now.

Thanks for the input...

[Plaminek]

Byteme97,

basicly I agree with you :)
Except East ruins: my opinion is that assault must be VERY careful after the climbing up first hill before they can find out ANY starting position for further advance. And must be very careful when climbing north slope of CP because will be target of Def hidden and laying behind ruins. East ruins will be area for defense rushers, who will run immediately after starting game to ruins and horny for CQC (something like running to 3rd pillar in bridge which I read here somewhere in forum is not so great for all of DoW). Ruins are above the terrain from where assault approaches and will be very difficult to snipe Def there. I would let assault to go at least little secure positions behind ruins because in the ruins they can be sniped from South Def Peak.
Another argument is that if u make map based on my vertexes, u will see that East ruins area is far far out of the line in the "assault only" area ...

But this is only the theory - only real games will show us how to ballance good rules for both sides :wink:

[ByteMe97]

ok point heard...

to clarify further... when i did the color fill the red really overran the green... assault can go anywhere but the tunnels... they are not limited to the green area.

[Plaminek]

I understood thet red-green concept :wink:

[Red Catcher 46]

Boy I know I will raise all kinds of hell with this but here goes:

I think the Radio Tower map should have no boundaries except tunnels. My reasoning is this. Assault is parachuting into an area unlike a spawn on the other maps. As such, that means you are going into an area that is already occupied with Defenders. I understand that Defenders are spawned but that doesn't change the 'real world scenario' that defenders occupy their areas.

As an assault force, you 'fight your way in' to the objective. I have played it with the boundary rules and without and I prefer the realism of no boundaries. My kill ratio still remains high with the 'fight through' concept so I see no advantage to to assault to limit defenders.

So here are my thoughts and I am open to your comments.

Red

[ByteMe97]

Red,

I have been really working on this map as I love it and the only problem I am having is that in a low number matchup you can take a considerable ammount of time to find OPFOR if by chance ASSAULT goes W and DEFENSE rushes E or vice versa.

I am cleaning up my maps and rules suggestions as we speak and will be posting the 3 best choices (in my opinion) in a poll topic for all to vote on and than of course submit the results to the BCG for final approval.

Most recently I have been playing with the idea that the Alpha Objective inside the Tower itself should be an active component. This falls in line with your "fight your way in" theory of engagement.

Thanks for input and welcome rebuttal.

[-=DoW=- Dsotm]

Speaking as both a player and an admin I think this map is too large and featureless to police artificial invisible boundaries. As a player its difficult to know where you are anyway - as an admin you'd spend 95% of your day answering calls to RT from the 5% of people who actualy know the boundaries trying to educate the 95% who don't, don't care, or can't be bothered to go and look.

I feel that this map offers the best opportunity to actually develop sniper slkilss such as patience, stealth and cunning. When players are herded into limited areas, you know where to find them - makes it too easy.

Tunnels off limits is about the only enforceable rule I would suggest.

[Datack3]

I agree with RedCatcher,

No boundaries would be fine, As an admin it is almost impossible to see where someone is. So if u put in boundaries u have to inforce those rules, but there is no way for a admin to see where u are (mostly, or at least lots of time's). I think we lose credibility.

[Basepin]

I absolutely agree with Datack3, I like to keep the rules simple and making rules you can't enforce will hurt our credibility as admin. I would only add that If you spawn in the tunnel, you only have 30 seconds exit and once out you may not reenter for any reason.

[Plaminek]

I like simple rules too, but played RT a lot and almost every ACTIVE defense (rushing, not staying and guarding objectives) win a match. Its simple - they r there first and pin down assault in initiation valleys.
If we play sniper games w/o any boundaries, then best tactics for def will automatically be to rush to ruins, cp and West valley, pin down assault and kill all heads above terrain.
AND best tactics for assault will be RUN, RUN, RUN and changing directions into some safe place or finding out CQC ... :(
And this is not what I like ...

[Plaminek]

And also remember that tactics from Bridge with SVD or MOS for assault will not work here, because fog in RT is much further than in bridge and is almost impossible to snipe some1 who u see as a dark spot FAR FAR away of u after moving, in crouch (or prone) with SVD or MOS - I killed many e snipers in RT game, took their weapons and then tried to kill some1 with them. Even if I was laying, quiet, high stamina - at long range it was VERY difficult.
I think tat M24 and M82 will be primary wepon of all snipers in RT and they are VERY inaccuarate at long distances when crouch or even prone w/o bipod ...
Consider that, guys :)

[Red Catcher 46]

Still feels more correct to have no boundaries in RT. As to Defenders rushing to the ruins, if I am offense, let them come. I have a couple spots that will bring them down ever time. When I am Defender, I like to sit back and let them come to me and for that I have a few spots that are very S W E E T. As to the position of the weapon and shooter (standing, crouch or prone and to use the bi-pod or not) is a shooter preference. It should be a long shot game and CQC is almost non-existent in this game.

Let the players play and not restrict their movements.

[ByteMe97]

OK...

I've decided to call it a day and run with no tunnels, and no windows. Doorways will be ok unless we can determine any bugs like the tower windows on the bridge.

How feels the masses????

[-=DoW=- MauryMac]

No Windows? - Clarify Please?

I think/agree that the only rule should be no tunnels.

[ByteMe97]

i think if we take away the windows on RT we eliminate the possibility of "bugs" and having to find them... if you want to get together and test ALL the possible window shots I'll be happy to do so... and then we can allow them... they are small to begin with and I know for some you can be back 5-10ft and still shoot through...

[Tatmtt2120]

I say we allow windows and doorways until a bug is found. If you start with the windows and doors off limits right away then we will never find out if there is a bug it not. We can address a bug problem later and change the rules if we do eventually find one.

[Gungjuilio]

I like the boundaries that are set on Radio Tower...now if you can enforce them...every time I go on there now I direct everyone to www.dow-sniper.net to let them see for themselves the boundaries you have lain out. Usually I get vote-kicked right after that because there are no DoW's on and everyone that is in the arena wants not to abide by the rules..
However I am sure this will change over a period of time because there is no greater weapon than perseverance.

[Red Catcher 46]

Okay as I understand then is that the ONLY thing off limits will be tunnels. I also agree with some of the discussion that we do not make off limits the windows and doors until we find out if there is a bug or not.

I love democracy :P and that we can intelligently discuss these issues or until I get you in my sights and snuff you out. :twisted:

Red

[-=DoW=- MauryMac]

Not sure if there has been an official decicion or not, but hows this. I just edited the mountain pass rules found on the website.

Equipment
Assault is allowed two smoke grenades per player. No flashbangs will be issued.
Night Vision Goggles will not be issued.
Back to top



Boundaries
No player on either team is allowed in the Tunnels.
If You spawn in the tunnels, get out ASAP.
Back to top



Objectives
Assault's primary and sole objective is to eliminate all OPFOR.
Do not complete the Goals for this map.

[IsZi]

Tunnels? Are we talking Mountain Pass, or Radio Tower?

[-=DoW=- MauryMac]

Radio Tower, i just edited the rules for MP to use for RT.

[Gungjuilio]

Rgr that... I will update my key bindings for the rules...