Offline (Hopefully only over night.) [Archive]

IsZi

April 1st, 2003, 21:51

Well, my computer is being it's usual pain-in-the-ass self once again! At first, we thought it was a fan dying, but now our suspicions have turned toward the power supply. Unfortunately, it's too late in the night now to do anything about that. Tomorrow, we'll head out in search of an affordable replacement, and hope that that's the only problem we have to deal with this time. In any case, I'm not going to be on any more tonight, as I have only temporarily comandeered my Aunt's machine for the purpose of writing this post. If all goes well, I'll be back up and running tomorrow, though.

sniper_nick

April 2nd, 2003, 06:06

Good luck Coby!!!

Shaumelia

April 2nd, 2003, 06:21

goodluck and special greetings to Jamy;-)

-=DoW=- MauryMac

April 2nd, 2003, 06:27

Grab An Enermax Coby, power supplies are the most overlooked component in a computer, and one of, if not THE most important.

-=DoW=- cecoto

April 2nd, 2003, 12:51

Good luck
hopely we see or hear you tommorow :datasint:

TR-JustinMc06-

April 2nd, 2003, 14:49

Any luck with the power supply? good luck though :banger:

IsZi

April 3rd, 2003, 19:56

Well, turns out that my new problem wasn't the power supply. My MoBo died. So, I'm in the process of re-setting up the machine with a new motherboard right now. One small problem, though...

As you know, I'm running on a new MoBo, and a new (and upgraded) CPU Heatsink/Fan. My CPU is an Athlon T-Bird 1200 MHz, and the Fan/Heatsink is a Thermaltake Volcano 9, which is rated for use on processors up to Athlon XP 2800+. The guy at the computer shop told me it keeps his 2200+ running nicely around 120 degrees Farenheit. Right now my system is running about 145!!!

So, if I'm correct, that narrows the culprits down to two parts, CPU and Power Supply, although the BIOS currently shows the fan running at over its maximum advertised speed. (Advertised: 4800 RPM, Current: Over 5200) Then again, with the BIOS showing the fan as running so much faster than it's said to run, I wonder if the sensors might actually be off a bit, albeit that it is a new motherboard. (Yet, at the same time, the BIOS also shows a couple of the power output levels as slightly lower than normal.) The computer's in the middle of doing something right now, but I'll post the actual report later if I can.

So, my guess now is that either something is screwed up with the CPU that is making it run hotter than usual, or something screwed up with the sensors on the motherboard, so that it might be lying to me.

I dunno... any help here?

ByteMe97

April 3rd, 2003, 20:02

open window

chuck box out

:lol:

IsZi

April 3rd, 2003, 21:03

Interesting now...

Just talked to my step-dad who used to own his own computer shop, and also did a bit of overclocking in his time. He's currently running a P4 (Can't remember the speed) at around 150 degrees Farenheit. He says that my machine doesn't sound like it's running really that hot to worry about.

Last I checked while I was talking to him, the machine was going around 136 degrees. He said it would be ok, and to just run with it as-is. I'll post a full list of system health info when I get back on my own machine again. My Aunt is back and she wants on hers now.

Cy'allz soon, I hope.

tedtung

April 3rd, 2003, 23:37

good luck coby!
I know how it feels when you are without your own computer..... hehehee...

sniper_nick

April 4th, 2003, 04:22

I know how you feel coby my cpu overheated and died with the rest of my pc a month ago i have had to use pc's at my friend's and my moms pc to play. Plus my new dell pc which i have been waiting for a mont to arrive still hasent hopefully it arriving is today.

Good luck coby also i suggest you check the actual temp with a themomoter do not allways rely on sensors sometimes they are faulty once you have posted a full list of probs il try to help asmuch as i can.

-=DoW=- sniper_nick

-=DoW=- MauryMac

April 4th, 2003, 06:19

Coby, what kind of power supply do you have? If it is not supplying the correct voltage to the board, it can cause all sorts of problems. And an incorrect voltage can make your CPU run hotter than normal. I think the acceptable ranges are 15-20% +/- I had a client go through three motherboards in a year just to find out that lightning struck the pole near there house which was making everything get 1.5X the power it was supposed to. And, since the computer is super sensitive, it went first. Now EVERYTHING is going. Washer/dryer dishwasher, tv, vcr, stereo, etc. Ever consider getting a UPS ? They help supply a constant feed.

Acceptable Ranges

12volt line 10.2 - 13.8 +/-
5volt line 4.25 - 5.75 +/-
These are only for reference at 15%

Good luck!

Acedeal

April 4th, 2003, 08:05

One of the most important peice of the HS (Heat Sink ) and the chip that is over looked is the bonding material between the 2.

You can not just drop a heat sink on the chip and expect even cooling, due to the chip will not perfectly mate to the the heatsink. When using Arctic Silver I got about a 3 -5 degree cooling benfit.

I use Artic Thermal Silver III grease to create the transfer point for the heat to travel. (This is probally the best heat transfer material that you can get.)

http://www.arcticsilver.com/as3.htm

To make a perfect match I do the following to all my HS's
http://overclockersclub.com/heatsinklappingguide.php
http://www.case-sensitive.co.uk/articles/lapping1.php
http://8ballshardware.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=337
http://www.virtual-hideout.net/articles/sk6_lapping/index.shtml

(You can find more on Lapping a heatsink.. Just use lapping and Heatsink on Yahoo.

IsZi

April 4th, 2003, 18:08

Well, the most recent report I had posted was with heatsink compound applied. I'd gone to the PC store I got the MoBo from, and he put a drop on the heatsink, and I put the heatsink/fan assembly back on the CPU.

Now my issue is trying to get to my old files on XP to back them up before I completely re-format. Here's the full situation on that:

After I changed the motherboard, I had tried to boot the OS as normal. It came up with a boot options screen, as if the previous boot had not succeeded. (If I remember right, it didn't.) So, I just told it to boot normally. It stopped there. I re-booted, trying to start it in Safe Mode, with the same results. Eventually, re-booting only returned a "Error loading operating system" response.

Right now, so that I can burn my backups to CD, once they're recovered, I'm running Windows XP Professional on an auxilary 2 GB hard drive that I plugged in. I've been able to get most of the files I've needed from my regular hard drive, using the extra drive as the temporary boot drive. I've tried repairing the installation with the options given in the Windows XP Setup process. Having setup repair the OS only brought me back to where I was to begin with. Using the System Recovery Console, I was able to access all the folders on all my drives, with the exception of my own Documents and Settings folder. (Pretty much everything I could get to, with the regular drive set as a slave to the spare.)

I've got a "special" (as I like to call it ;) :twisted: ) version of Windows XP Professional installed on my HDD. I have three partitions, similar to those on a Linux box. (C - Boot, D - Swap, E - Root) Most of my files that I needed backed up were either somewhere under Program Files on C, or (the majority) in one folder or another on E. However, my Address Book and E-mails are all stuck in my Documents and Settings folder on C drive, which is locked from access, unless I can successfully boot the Operating System from that drive. For some reason, I can get into Jami's Documents and Settings folder, and back her stuff up, but mine is locked.

Another problem I'm having is with my network card, but I'll worry about that one once I've got a working installation of XP on my regular hard drive.

Anyone got any ideas? Any way that I might be able to get around things to get my e-mail stuff out before I wipe this thing?

IsZi

April 4th, 2003, 19:35

Well, making a little progress now. Aside from CHKDSK constantly telling me that something is wrong with the drive, and it supposedly fixed some problems, I've discovered a wonderful tool known as FIXBOOT. This little doohickey actually told me that the boot sector of my C drive was actually corrupt. And, it says it fixed (or replaced) it. So, after running another CHKDSK, I'm gonna give a reboot another try. Hopefully, I'll at least be able to get into Safe Mode at least.

Another interesting note: Although I can access Jami's folder, under D&S, while running XP off the spare drive, I can't get into the D&S folder at all under the System Recovery Console. Also of further interest, I can at least retrieve directory listings of what's in the D&S folder, and its subdirectories, although I can't actually "CD" to them, or directly access, copy, or delete any of the files.

IsZi

April 4th, 2003, 19:39

*sigh* Still "Error loading operating system."

Any other ideas? I'm running out here, and about to give in to just wiping the thing and re-formatting.

Kryten121

April 4th, 2003, 19:52

What you need to do is.... just reload windows over the old version.... that should fix the booting problem, unfortuanatly when changing motherboards alot of the files windows uses when booting up are chip specific hense your problems. To put it bluntly windows in all its many forms is a pile of junk! Its extremely useful but given time windows always breaksdown!

As for the heat quandry....
Artic Silver combined with a decent heatsink and fan will provide you witha decent heat spread solution. However many other things can increase the temperature of the main chip. Airflow around the box and airflow inside the box.

If you machine is ina enclosed area without sufficant airflow around it, that will cause you problems, if your cables are cluttered inside the box then this will also decrease airflow within the machine.

I run my machine without one side and a small fan I got from wally world, I can with this fan decrease the chip surface temperature 17 degrees celsius.

The only real all round heat dispersion solution is water cooling, which I am very seriously considerting.

Peace out.

IsZi

April 4th, 2003, 20:00

Okay, but will it wipe out the old files that I'm trying to back up? Through installation, won't it clear the D&S folders?

Kryten121

April 4th, 2003, 20:12

No, its like an overlay, it just replaces files and reads which files are needed for your chipsets that are on your motherboard.

-=DoW=- MauryMac

April 4th, 2003, 20:35

That is difficult to do in XP is it not? ive never done it successfully, something through the recovery console. I usually just install to a new dir, back up, then format and reinstall, or pop the drive out and back up to another machine.

Kryten121

April 4th, 2003, 20:44

Unless the install program specifies you have to format the HDD to install it, the point is you can reinstall have winddows working and then the directories will still be intact meaning his setting will be lost but the files he wants will stay!

IsZi

April 4th, 2003, 20:48

Okay, so re-install to the same Windows directory I started with, and just work from that?

Is this re-install as in, full install? Or is it one of the repair procedures?

-=DoW=- MauryMac

April 4th, 2003, 20:50

yes, but i do believe that is the problem he is having. he cant access the D&S directory because of encryption.

Kryten121

April 4th, 2003, 20:50

You must re-insatll with teh same file system option as before.

Do you remember which one you used?

Fat or NTFS?

IsZi

April 4th, 2003, 20:53

NTFS Can we get in the Forum chat?

IsZi

April 5th, 2003, 00:43

Well, tried another FIXBOOT, followed by CHKDSK, and then did a Repair Installation through Windows XP Setup. Still getting "Error Loading OS". Currently taking a break in the process of backing everything up. (Hey, even a computer junkie has to sleep some time.) Got everything (that I could) consolidated into one group of folders on my main HDD, and gonna burn it all to RW tomorrow, since I can't squeeze it all into the puny little 2 GB, and keep Windows on it at the same time. Hopefully, the burning will go well. Having a 2 GB ATA66 hard drive as the boot drive doesn't always mean things are running the quickest, even though I've got all my other partitions' extra space set up for extra swap files.

So, after I get everything that I currently have access to backed up, I'm going to resort to slightly more risky measures. Here's what I plan on trying. (As much as I can.)

FIXMBR (This claims some risk of partition table loss.)

A full re-install of Windows, OVER the currently existing version. (Slight possibility of regaining access to files, minor possibility of losing data. Gotta fix the MBR first, though, since the partitioner isn't recognizing the C: as NTFS for some reason.)

A little tricky maneuver involving Partition Magic. (Assuming that it will recognize the C: partition as valid, I may attempt to convert it from NTFS to FAT32 if possible. This is said to remove all file protection and, assuming the files are intact, I should be able to get the necessary backups afterwards.)

So, does anyone have an idea in which order I should attempt these? No matter which way I do it, if I have to attempt a full re-install, the MBR would have to be fixed first. So, my options are:

FIXMBR
Re-install
Partition Magic

or

Partition Magic
FIXMBR
Re-install

or

FIXMBR
Partition Magic
Re-install

What's y'allz's recommendations?

*sigh* I need another FULL day off, so I can get this thing taken care of!!!

sniper_nick

April 5th, 2003, 13:58

open window, take pc, throw pc out of window!!!

Is it only the moutherboadrd giving you trouble because if the drive is still working you could put it into anouther pc as a slave and backup form there.

tell me to shut up if im wrong

-=DoW=- SmokieRat

April 5th, 2003, 17:45

If I remember right you have to refomat the disk to switch to FAT32.

-=DoW=- MauryMac

April 5th, 2003, 17:53

The "official" word from Microsoft is you cannot convert from NTFS to Fat32. BUT you CAN use a third party program called partition magic to do that. I speak from experience :-) Almost lost 30GB of data... got it all back though.

IsZi

April 6th, 2003, 11:30

Sniper Nick.... shut up. ;)

I've got the machine up and running, using an extra HD as the boot drive, and my usual HD as a slave, to back up the info. But, due to some security settings that I had apparently put in place on some folders (although I don't remember doing it), I can't get to some of my old "Documents and Settings" files.

Anyway, I just got home from being turned around at work. Looks like they don't need me for a few hours today, so I've got some extra time to try and crack this problem.

Kryten121

April 6th, 2003, 13:33

so I've got some extra time to try and crack this problem.

with a 10 lb sledgehammer no doubt ;-)

IsZi

April 7th, 2003, 00:20

Finally, the moment of truth....

I was able, through some manipulation of various settings (thanks to some tips from a cousin of mine who works in tech support), to gaine FULL access to all my backup files, without resorting to extreme measures. Unfortunately, my CD burner doesn't seem to happy to run with a 2 GB as its boot drive. So, I have been forced to squeeze the backups into whatever space was left on that little drive (meaning whatever space wasn't taken over by Windoze), and I'm now preparing to try to revive my old OS. Hopefully, I'll be able to get it back up without doing a full re-format, so I can get things off the 2 GB and on to CD before messing with anything else. (This would also give me some breathing time and let me just put off the re-format for another day and enjoy the free use of my computer once again.)

Wish me luck, y'allz!

sniper_nick

April 7th, 2003, 05:54

Good luck coby

Kryten121

April 7th, 2003, 12:03

forget the fork,
use a sledgehammer

IsZi

April 7th, 2003, 14:55

Well, here's the latest update now. Before the update, however, I would like to request that this be moved to the "OS" section of our "Tech Support" forums, where it now belongs.

Last time I left you, I was at the point of having everything backed up onto the 2 GB drive, except for the AA:O 1.6 installation program. It just wouldn't fit, so I decided to take it out of the backup folder and re-download it when everything got back up.

After getting everything onto the 2 GB, I pulled it out, and set up my 40 GB as the primary master (boot) drive. Tossed in the first Windows XP Setup Boot Disk, and fired 'er up. After going through all six boot disks, and finally getting into the System Recovery Console, I ran FIXMBR, FIXBOOT, and CHKDSK, and re-booted the computer, praying that it did the job.

"Error loading operating system."

Oh, well. We all saw this one coming, right? No big deal now, though, since everything's been backed up. Shut down, pop in the boot disks again, and re-load. After the system came back up, I started a full Windows XP setup, deleting and re-creating all my partitions, and re-formatting the C:\ drive. Setup copied all its files over, and made it to the first re-boot. (The one after which you actually get to use a mouse, but are still in setup.) On reboot, guess what?

"Error loading operating system."

:evil:

So, of course, I'm like "What the F:_censore:K?!?!" It should have been perfectly fine after re-partitioning and formatting and setting the OS back up!

Anyone got a clue what's going on here? My next idea now is to see if I can find a low-level formatting program, and seriously wipe that sucker down.

Datack3

April 7th, 2003, 15:39

ehhh Coby,

Maybe an open door, but dit u set the partition active?

:|

-=DoW=- MauryMac

April 7th, 2003, 15:56

you speak of boot discs, cant you just boot from the cd? ive never used the boot discs. And where did you delete the partitions? right from the blue screen during setup?

IsZi

April 7th, 2003, 15:59

Gotta remember, Mac, I've got a "special" ;) version of Windows XP. I can't boot from the disk.

And yeah, the partitions were erased/re-created through the blue screen in setup. I can only assume that Windows is smart enough to set the partition as active, on install.

IsZi

April 7th, 2003, 22:31

AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Why? What the hell is wrong with this thing?!?!

Ran a low-level format ("Write zeroes to drive"), and then tried re-installing Windows again, and had the same result! I'd gotten through the partition setup/format part, and it copied the files over that it needed, and restarted the machine. On restart, I got the message that has been haunting me for a week now.

"Error loading operating system."

IsZi

April 8th, 2003, 03:13

Made a *little* more progress, now. Got past the BIOS on that first re-boot, but now I'm getting a BSOD, with a message to the effect of "UNMOUNTABLE BOOT PARTITION". Hell, if it was un-mountable, how'd the dang OS start to boot in the first place? *sigh* Fortunately, a friend of mine (name not mentioned to protect the "innocent") was able to get me another "special" copy, this time with a bootable CD. That should help speed things along, since I won't have to deal with any more disk-swapping to load Setup, and it might actually make some difference (although I'm not sure how) in how things go with the next setup.

Wish me luck.... again.

IsZi

April 8th, 2003, 04:13

Still no-go, but I found something that mentioned the problem could be that I'm using a 40-pin connector instead of an 80-pin, on my IDE cable? How do I tell the difference? Last I knew, IDE connectors only had 40 pins?

I do doubt this is the problem though, since I'm using the same drive/connector that I have been using since I put this machine together back in 2000, and never had a problem with either of them under Windows 98SE, Me, or XP Pro. I'm just kinda curious about this connector deal.

And now, time for sleep. Got a long day ahead of me tomorrow, and that's not even counting the time I plan on spending in trying to revive my poor old machine some more.

Anyone got a defibrillator?

SilberPfeil

April 8th, 2003, 07:03

The cable connectors are still the same, it is only the cable that has changed. On a 40 pin cable the strands in the cable are about a 1/16th" wide where as on a 80 pin cable the strands are about 1/32 wide. The 80 pin cable is for use on MOBOs and hard drives that are ATA 100 or ATA 133. if your hard drive is a ATA 33 or 66 then a 40 pin cable is fine. But it also does not really matter because if you put a CD-ROM on the same IDE channel as a ATA 100 or 133 hard drive it(the HD)will be limited to the ATA 66 standard that the CD-ROM uses. As far as your "Special Version of Win XP" if I take your meaning correctly then I have been having problems with my "Special Version of Win XP" also. Everytime I try to install it I get the "Blue Screen of Death" somewhere during the install. I finally gave it up purchased a copy and have been happy ever since.

-=DoW=- MauryMac

April 8th, 2003, 07:50

Actually, to correct you sputmann, ATA 66 was the first to require an 80 conductor 40 pin cable. And CDroms these days still use anything faster than ATA33, but you are right, if its on the same channel as the HDD, you will have some performance issues. There are some cd burners and dvd burners that may be making the transition to ata66, but its not a mainstream thing yet to the best of my knowledge.

sniper_nick

April 8th, 2003, 10:16

Dang coby i give you my old advice:
Open window
Take PC
Throw PC out of window!!!

You must be so P :_censore: ed off
Good Luck

P.S Do you have to have XP? isent there a diffrent OS (like win98) you could use then mabie upgrade to XP.

-=DoW=- MauryMac

April 8th, 2003, 10:24

Well, thats a great idea, it never even occured to me... :stick: I'm speechless... Well done Nick! Try win98 Coby. If that doesnt work, get a new hdd.

sniper_nick

April 8th, 2003, 10:34

DID I DO GOOD?

-=DoW=- MauryMac

April 8th, 2003, 10:35

If Coby Can get his hands on a copy of Win98, we'll find out :D

sniper_nick

April 8th, 2003, 10:37

He will also need a win 98 boot disk to get into FDISK so he can sortout his partitions.

-=DoW=- MauryMac

April 8th, 2003, 10:44

Pretty sure hes got one.

IsZi

April 8th, 2003, 17:53

If I recall, I have (actually legal) copies of Windows 98SE, and Windows Me, with a boot disk for Windows Me, but I don't think I've got the boot disk for 98SE. (Might have to dig a bit.) Either way, I do very much prefer XP to either of these.

Also, I did some looking around, and it seems that there have been quite a few users experiencing similar difficulties. Whether all, some, or none of them are using a "special" Windows XP disc, I do not know. However, all of them seem to have something in common. They're all using either a Western Digital HDD, or a VIA chipset with an ATA 100/133 controller, or both. The solutions I have seen include:

Replacing the IDE cable. (Just got home with a new one, gonna put it in soon.)
Low-level format. (Done)
Set HDD to LBA mode (Done)
Loading VIA's IDE drivers through the Setup program, before anything else. (F6 at first screen, gonna try that after I get the new cable in.)

Oh, and I've also seen reports of this problem when doing Upgrade installations as well.