SPOTTING Vs. BLIND FIRE

[ByteMe97]

I was just on -=DoW=- IV and had asked those there on their oppinion on SPOTTING.

For example I like to get behind the car on assault and spot while others shoot at OPFOR as I call out and correct.

This would negate blind fire on the part of those shooting even if they can not see the target.

With the exception of the one shot one kill theory should this practice be allowed?

I feel it is realistic to a degree and promotes good communication among teammates.

Feedback more than welcome, it is expected.

[Plaminek]

I personally am agains this tactics. If I correctly understand, u need covering fire provided by ur teammates into the places where some1 can or neednt be. This is against all real sniper techniques, because ur teammates are revealing their position, which would real sniper never do.
I understand that on map like Bridge defense cannot be surprised too much and too often by assault occurences (map is too small) and this tactics would be sometimes useful, but generally in open space I consider this not-snipering technique and would not allow it.
Just my opinion :wink:

[Acedeal]

just the brief synopsis of a spotter.

He Correctly ID's the Target, calc's the wind, temp, and other factors. Relays this info to the Sniper. The sniper can see the target!! major point here..

if sniper can not see the target, this = blind shooting..

[ByteMe97]

Partial agreement...

Realistically most if not all advanced marksmanship units are pairs. One is responsible for planning and execution of the mission at hand the other is the spotter and or back-up in case of emergency need for a second shot or "clean up action"

As for needing covering fire or giving away positon, yes it can. However consider this scenario:

I am spotting from a location close enough to see the enemy. If I take the shot I will definitely disclose my position. If I hawever radio locations of enemies (not unlike calling out that an enemy is on Central Peak) and a unit member who can not see the target takes the shot, he gives only a general bearing of location which may be very different from where i am spotting from. He than (since he is not in sight of the enemy, changes his location and awaits correction from the spotter on distance or direction for his next shot.

This type of scenario was very present in Korea and Vietnam and was often performed by units with nothing more than binoculars and M1 rifles with iron sights.

Your point is well taken and I wanted to thoroughly explain my point of view to you and all who read this.

As for the bridge... It is really not a great map on the whole because of it's size and orientation... If the coverage is done right one covers the left ladder area, one covers the right ladder area, and 4 can hold up as far back as the road bend and win everytime barring odd cases of stamina by assault and poor shooting by the defense. I get more than half my kills on defense and from the same spot shooting at the same spot.

[Acedeal]

:) hope you are not telling us, that you been killing acedeal by blind shooting him in his hidding spot on the ledge :) .. :stick: :lol:

I agree, but in principal it goes against our rules of blind shooting. If you are shooting at an unseen target, then you are blind shooting.

The main reason for the blind shooting rule was; take an SVD for example, you can almost auto-fire it (no difference from shooting the M16. So let's just take the SVD and point it up at the windows, stairs and spray some lead in that direction and maybe kill / wound someone.

and to follow along the same lines...I take a black marker, white-out, peice of tape, etc.. I bring up my scope, find the center of the X-hairs, place my mark there. now whereever I point my mark that is on the screen, is dead center of where my X-Hairs are when scoped. So i just point my mark in the direction I want to fire my SVD, and I have a Simi-Auto lead spraying weapon.. No need to scope, just point the mark in that direction and shoot away..

reason for my no blind firing rules.........

[ByteMe97]

OK.

So then no spotting for fire. Position communication is ok but the shooter must be in a visual position to fire. Got it.

Hence the post, I wanted a clear agreement or disagreement. If it was foggy I was gonna SPOT like a .....

[ByteMe97]

And as for the ledge...

Creature of Habit

Just like my tendency to flank right...

[Plaminek]

ByteMe - now I correctly understand what u mean with SPOTTING (I am not native english speaker :D ) - I know that this tactics was used in Vietnam but didnt know it was used by snipers ... But at this point I must agree with Ace that if u r not able to see target in any mode (sniper scope or eyes), u shouldnt shot. Ace, u have a point with the marker on the monitor screen - I was already considering it, but didnt do it because it seemed to me kinda strange and little bit stupid :) Yea i t would be great help in CQC too. Now I just orient horizontal middle screen by compass above, and vertical I just try to guess to get particularly exact position of crosshair ...

But to that blind shooting: I killed on 1 of DoW servers 1 guy 4 times in a row, because he was always on the left def ledge under tower - ur favourite position, isnt it? :D :D :D Danish asked me to let him kill that guy too, he almost beg for that :P :P :P Sorry Danish I had to ... :D :D :D
I killed him while I was on right arch between assault 2nd and 3rd pillar, so u surely know I couldnt see him. But I could see him by eye tail, orient myself by visible left defense 1st pillar while in scope and shoot into the mist. The same technique is used from def tower if assault crawl middle road. U know he is there, u can see him by eye tail, but cannot see him in scope - but u approximatelly calculate his position by some orientation marks and u can hit him - or he can hit u :) By ur definition - is it blindshooting?

[ByteMe97]

Yes by hs definition it is...

By my definition it's called "the learning curve of combat".

Actually that's a definition of Gunny Williamson USMC RET. (neighbor) He refers to it anytime something happens that should happen given enough time to learn yourn enemy's preference for tactical deployment....

Or in plain english, "Ace is on the ledge everytime, so i think i'll shoot him. "

[{Shaken}]

I've experienced a similar problem with smoke. Often opfor smokes at arch and then runs to relocate. They also frequently move to early and expose themselves. I have aquired several of these kills, however, recently a few folks have suggested I'm blind shooting. I hesitate now to shoot just to ensure that there is no question. I feel that if they are exposed they die. How should I play this scenario in future? See smoke and packup or punch a hole? Thanx for any help in this matter.

[FearBlade]

well, i have allsow shot some ppl i that way, as long as i can see em and hit em, il take a shot, no matter what they will say/call me, as long as u can see the target, or the outline of the target, it wouldent be blind shooting, not in my eyes eny way 8)

[Hari Seldon]

[quote="-=DoW=-{Shaken}"]I've experienced a similar problem with smoke. Often opfor smokes at arch and then runs to relocate. They also frequently move to early and expose themselves.

Exposing themselves, eh. Surely that is against the rules! Well, I say shoot them while their pants are down.

[-=DoW=- Allessir]

I use the Eye trail all the time to see farther into the fog. While this will locate my target. I don't shoot till I can atleast see his/her outline in my scope. I also could care less that they THINK I'm cheating. When someone sets a pattern. No matter how effective. I plan accordingly and shoot them from a different spot each time. This sets no pattern while I know where to look to find him/her. Tactical adv is mine. Opfor is looking all over for me while I'm just sitting someplace grinning.

[-=DoW=- po632003]

I agree with Ace in this!. only shoot at visible targets!! :banger:

[Acedeal]

Let's clarify it a bit. As there seems to be some slight confussion here.

ex. BLIND FIRING.. Point up at the windows and shooting away. Just becase you think someone is there.

ex. Not blind Firing. See someone in the edge of smoke moving, you lead them, as they enter into the smoke you fire, killing them. This is not blind firing.

Having someone tell you where the E is, and you shooting in that general Direction = Blind.

Having someone tell you where the E is, and you see them, you aim you scope them is not blind firing.

This should not be that hard. If you can not see them to begin with, and are just shooting in some general direction, you are blind firing.


Ig you see them, have them scoped, lead them into or out of something, that does not = blind/

Clear? if not, post other questions on this.

[{Shaken}]

Thanks for clearing that up Acedeal

[Tatmtt2120]

Clear as mud, J/K

[gallardo]

I think that if you cant see the person when you are zoomed in your blindfiring. If you cant see him, you cant see him.

[-=DoW=- Body Piercer]

As clear as the first time I read it. I get what you're saying Byteme. Relaying positions of Opfor should be done whenever possible, taking the shot should be done when you can verify that Opfor is there.


Think from a hunting standpoint. You hear a rustle in some bushes, do you pop off a few rounds in that direction or do you wait until you can see what you're shooting at? Might be a a 10 point buck, might be a skunk.

[-=DoW=- Wildman]

Man, what was it we were talking about anyway??? :mrgreen:

[Dutchie]

Opening an old can of worms? :lol:

I take a black marker, white-out, peice of tape, etc.. I bring up my scope, find the center of the X-hairs, place my mark there. now whereever I point my mark that is on the screen, is dead center of where my X-Hairs are when scoped. So i just point my mark in the direction I want to fire my SVD, and I have a Simi-Auto lead spraying weapon.. No need to scope, just point the mark in that direction and shoot away..

reason for my no blind firing rules.........

Perhaps I should do the same... I cannot see half the people with my scope up...

[IsZi]

As clear as the first time I read it. I get what you're saying Byteme. Relaying positions of Opfor should be done whenever possible, taking the shot should be done when you can verify that Opfor is there.


Think from a hunting standpoint. You hear a rustle in some bushes, do you pop off a few rounds in that direction or do you wait until you can see what you're shooting at? Might be a a 10 point buck, might be a skunk.

...or might be another hunter. One of the primary rules of firarms safety, here: "ALWAYS be sure of your target. (And backstop)" If you can't see what you're shooting, or what's beyond it, how do you know you're not pointing your bullet straight into a bad FF scenario?

[Dutchie]

I better start wearing an bright yellow or orange shirt on the bridge from here on in then :lol:

[[NL]Sandman.exe]

Mine opinion about this is if you can't see the target it and you shoot at it it is blind firing ..... but if you shoot at tracers of a saw it is not blind firing because you can see where its tracers are coming from.

[FatMan!]

Well with a term BLIND FIRE, you would think that it means just that. Firing at that which you can not see.... :roll:

[-=DoW=- Wildman]

I guess Ace was not clear, or was he. If you can not see it do not shoot it.